Direction GM's taking Saturn

you buy a car, someone does something that puts a ding in it, you hate
seeing it, everytime you look at it you see it, it turns you inside out
because when it happened it was avoidable, but it's too expensive to
replace

 

Need to clarify somie thing here, the EPA does not test rate them any
more and has not for years, Detriot performs there one tests and speed
avewrage on highway cyclle is 48 with top speed of 59. Anoy wne that
says they get 30 MPG with one of those cars is really spinning a yarn
big time (maybe 30 KPG but not30MPG)

 

My last long trip I got 29.3 miles per gallon with CC.
It has 2 very tall overdrives for a reason dips;;;.
Lead foots need not apply!

buh buh buh what?

cyclle is 48 with top speed of 59. Anoy wne that

buh buh buh

 

This wireless key board sends wrong letters sometime, I need to watch
it more closely I guess. The average speed for highway test is 48 and
top speed is 59. Nobody averages 48 on hiway unless it is a real
traffic jam or on icy roads maybe. Detriot does test too, not EPA as
they pushed for that rule change to make it easier to "fudge" the
tests and figures. Kinda like letting the fox watch the hen house.

 

I liked the no haggle price concept-- the car I bought was the same
deal as the next guy as the one before me--I didn't drive away
thinking, damn, I bet if I had argued another 2 hours I could have ....

 

No dealer needs to make or be guarenteed 3 to 6k profit on the sale of
a vehicle (depending on list price). As far as haggleing, there is
none, you tell them what you are will to pay and then tell them is can
sit in there driveway or yours and if they do not bite you walk out
plain and sinple. They will call you whe they figure out that you are
serious. I shout for a dealer to make 300 to 500 bucks on a sales or
so because I am not going to pay a extra 3K or more for them to profit
from.

 

$300-500 doesn't even cover the salesman's commision. How do you
suppose the dealer pays for the building, taxes, the lights so you can
shop at night, the guy who keeps the car clean, etc. Some profit is
essential for a retailer to stay in business, they aren't supported by
your tax dollars. That said, I'm all for getting the best deal you
can! Your buying technique is the most effective one out there, btw.
Buster

 

If it weren't for the plastic panels, what would make my Saturn better
than any other car? I've bought a couple of replacement Saturns
because they still look pretty good after several years, while the
metal paneled cars are all dinged up. Without plastic panels, there is
no significant reason for me to choose Saturn over another brand.
Buster

 

Yes just imagine the new saturn owners that discover that door panels
and fenders are no longer ding and rust proof and that a 12 year old
one will look better than a new one when it gets few years old and has
dings and rust from scratches. GM is making a BIG mistake here with a
car feature/trademark but they have been making a lot of mistakes on a
lot of things so this is no surprize. And people wonder why they are
loosing more market share every day. It is all about building them
cheaper not better.

 

I really wouldn't be that surprised with his mileage. In addition to
my Saturn I have a '95 Fleetwood with the same basic power train and
probably an extra 1k pounds of weight. I regularly get 27mg on the hi
way running 70 ~ 75. In town runs around 17 so the Saturn sure is
kinder to the pocket book there.

Steve B.

 

The plastic body panels (and the low rpm peak torque) were the major reasons
why I purchased two new S1 Saturns. If the S1 wagons had not been
cancelled, I would have bought a third. I do not see anything in the Saturn
showroom today that I would consider buying. If I am going to buy a
standard GM product, I want to be able to purchase my parts from my standard
GM parts (wholesale price) dealer. Since GM has also abandoned the fuel
efficient mini station wagon, I can see nothing I want from GM (except a new
Vette).

The upside is that since GM killed the S1, the used prices have dropped
significantly and a used S1 is now a great value and they are available for
very low prices and parts are now appearing in the self serve wrecking yards
so they will be cheaper to fix. I would advise anyone to purchase the next
low mileage SW1 that they find in good condition.

RIP Saturn

 

I do not need a salesman or dealer's building, taxes, or lights and I do not
want to pay for car washing. I would be happy to purchase on the internet
and to take delivery as the car rolls off the truck. Dealers make money and
sales from unknowledgeable customers and from warranty service and the
significant margins on parts, shop labor and leasing.

I would have happily negotiated price, and did not consider the no haggle
policy an attraction.

just my .02 YMMV

 

Do not bank on this too much as I have a friend that is a manager with
Advanced Auto and he told me that in 2006 GM patented a LOT of new
parts so that they will be dealer only and they add to list every
years so buy a new GM will not be much better than a Saturn
aftermarket parts wise. I have owned GM's for over 30 years (and
jeeps for over 20 years and a few other brands for less but I think
that I have about bought my last GM product unless they can really
turn their act around.

 

Sure they can and most dealers make the money off of used cars and
service anywa plus they get hidden factory insentives on sales as I
have a freind that is in GM fleet sales at a dealer and he told me
that when they are pushing cars at low prices to move them, GM gives
them money for doing it to maintain profit for them. I have not paided
over 500 bucks over true dealer cost (minus hidden kick backs) for
over 25 years now and I have bought 7 new vehicles in that time frame
too. If you feel sorry for them and want to bank roll them have at it
but not me.

 

Bad news, but I was not talking about aftermarket parts or dealers. It has
always bugged me that while my genuine GM parts GM dealer is happy to sell
me my GM truck and car parts wholesale, they are unable to get Saturn parts
through their normal (excellent) GM parts pipeline. Many simple parts that
are cheap from GM (like horns and fuel filters) are exorbitant (and usually
full retail) from a Saturn dealer. Aftermarket Saturn parts (when
available) are much more expensive than equivalent (and widely available)
aftermarket GM parts.

I have been a GM (Chevy) fan for most of my life but do not like their
reliance on fuel guzzling high margin luxury pickups and SUVs. Their high
performance vehicles do get remarkably good fuel economy (when driven
conservatively) but they have decided not to produce small, light, super
fuel efficient vehicles and have abandoned the mini station wagon which I
find is by far the most utilitarian body type combining good performance
(because of weight) good handling (because of weight and low CG) and great
economy (because of weight) and easy to park (because of size) but still
versatile and big enough to pack a significant load (particularly with a
roof rack and front mount rack for long loads) and are very comfortable to
sleep in.

GM killed the EV1 (and made Saturn carry the bad PR) and has failed to
develop hybrid and/or small turbo diesel engines like the VW TDI. If Saturn
still made the S series SW but with a small TDI (70 mpg) (or maybe hybrid),
I would be a buyer.

YMMV

 

A lot of people don't realize that true dealer cost, and dealer invoice
are two entirely different things. $500 over dealer cost is invariably
still well under invoice, is a pretty fair price to pay. Of course a
dealer can't survive if everyone paid $500 over dealer cost, but
fortunately there are enough people paying invoice or more to make up
for those people that pay less.

 

GM used to have a minimum 3% hold back of invoice price that they
would give dealer after sale and 3% of 30K is 900 bucks so even a
invoice they are making at least 900 bucks on a 30K sale. They are not
starving as long as they can sell something it is when they cannot
sell anythiong at all that they feel the squeeze. BTW, my price
factoed in hold back too when I got cars 500 or less over true cost.

 

Yes, you always want to factor in the hold back when calculating the
price to offer. On Toyota's they had some other stuff as well, 1% for
"Wholesale Financial Reserve," 2% for hold back, and 2% for TDA (ad
fee). Actually the dealer does have to contribute to the regional
advertising fund, but some dealers try to add that contribution back
onto the invoice price, even though Toyota gives them back the 2%. In my
area, it's a $500 contribution per vehicle, so if the invoice price is
greater than $25,000, the $500 is more than covered by Toyota.

Sometimes it's nearly impossible to find the factory to dealer
incentives, but if a dealer is advertising "all at this price" at well
under invoice, then you know that there are some factory to dealer
incentives in place.

 

Yes they are guarding that info a lot more these days but if you did
around on Internet you can find out.