Don't Buy a Saturn

I've had the car for a 1 1/2 years, and a 1" stack of service orders to
go

Bummer.

Like you, I bought my Saturn used. I bought it in September last year. (It
now has 87k km [54k miles]. I bought it when it had 76k km [47.5k miles].)

- I had a problem with the air conditioner at first, but the mechanic I go
to noticed that a valve appeared to have come loose; he replaced it (for
free) and it's worked like a charm ever since.

- I had to replace the muffler & resonator. That sucks, but it happens.

- I noticed that my Saturn burns some oil. Based on conversations that I've
seen on this newsgroup, that seems to be par for the course. I fill up with
about a quart of oil part-way through oil change periods, and it seems to
work fine. (According to most things I've read here, this oil burning --
due to faulty piston rings, some say -- should not seriously impact my
engine's longetivity or capabilities. So, I'm not worried.)

I can't attest to my Saturn's long-term reliability, as I haven't really
owned it for long enough. I will say that it hasn't stranded me in a dark
parking lot in -40 degree Celsius weather, as my previous car (a 1989
Plymouth Colt) did. Nor did it stall and have to be towed one day while it
was raining outside (like my Colt). Nor did it have to be towed because the
alternator, radiator, or clutch switch died (like my Colt).

On the plus side, the fact that the Saturn *isn't* Japanese has made it
tremendously affordable. I can't argue the fact that Japanese cars
(specifically Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda) have better long-term
reliability records than most of their American counterparts. In fact, I'd
completely agree with you there. However, the depreciation rate for
Japanese cars is so much slower than American automobiles that they don't
provide quite the same return on equity as their American counterparts when
buying used.

An example that I've stated here before -- and one of the primary reasons
why I think that used Saturns are a good buy -- can be summarized as
follows:

- I spent $9100 CAD including tax for my 1999 SL2. (A good deal, IMO.) A
similarly-equipped, similary-aged Honda Civic would have cost me $16000 CAD.
Let's say that I had the money to purchase either car (I did). Because I
went with the Saturn, I pocketed the difference (~$7000 CAD), and invested
it (say, at 5% interest, after inflation). In 5 years' time, it's quite
possible that I will have had more repairs on my Saturn than on a Honda.
Nevertheless, I can't imagine that the repairs on the Saturn will be worth
more than the repairs on a Civic plus the $8000 difference that I pocketed
originally.

So, in 5 years, I think that whatever remains of my financial savings (plus
interest), plus the trade-in value of my Saturn, will be such that I'll be
able to buy another American automobile for very little additional money.
Good financial planning, IMO.

Just my $0.02.
-kris

 

I've got a '93 SC2. My dad purchased it new, it was his now it's mine.
Yeah, it was free. Great car? It's reliable, doesn't rust, and it's
not horridly bad to work on. It's lasted 215,000 miles and needs some
component replacement as a result (the water pump died this week. Not
bad, but we knew it was going, so we put a new one in). Great car?
It's been reliable. I hate the mileage it gets (still low 20s), it's
got no real power, but it does the job. I like high power:weight
ratios, so an economy car doesn't really make sense for me. I'd hate a
Japanese car too. I DESPISE the small buzzy inline 4!!!

Anyway, I can't say it's a BAD car, just not the kind of car I like.
But it goes and was reasonably priced, and it's not rusting away (unlike
the wagon it replaced ).

Given it's been reliable, and stayed in reasonably good condition all
these years, I can't say "don't buy one". But it's not the car for me
and I know it. Maybe I'm a bit hard on it as a result.

I've heard horror stories from every make/model of car / bike*. With so
many made, you're bound to have a pissed customer.

*Friend lost an oil pump on his Honda, that was the end of the engine.
Nothing to rebuild. Swayed him into getting a Harley...

 

Lower intake manifold gasket Leak mean anything to a GM V6 owner? How does
MR Goodwrench feel about these motors?
http://www.gmintakeleak.com/

Sorry to go off topic, but couldn't resist under the circumstance. I have a
98 SC2 that I am a little less that fond of, but it was a repo and I didn't
expect the world of it. It serves the purpose and the price was right.

 

We'll I guess I just have a bad car. I bought mine used also.

If it's not the SES light, it's the headlight flutter, now it's the rotors
need resurfacing after I bought them last year from Saturn. Now I guess I
have to take it to a private garage and get the rotors resurfaced.

What kills me the most is Saturn is unwilling to take responsibility for
their own screw ups. I have now started a campaign against Saturn. I'll
start with the BBB and work my way up.

 

I'm pretty pissed at the '98 SL2 now sitting parked in front of the
house. I bought it used at 107K nine months and 16,000 miles ago, paid
$5500 (+450 use tax), and one transmission shop says he can fix it up for
$4000, but he tells me, "if I were you, rid yourself of this and get
another car." I figure that I have made an average $630 per month
payment to drive this car, which I hoped to get at least two years out
of.

I can hardly blame Saturn though. I bought this car from a guy who used
a "conditioner" in the transmission and there was a delay in kicking into
reverse. God knows who else drove the thing and how they abused it in
the 107K miles prior to that. Had I taken it to a mechanic at purchase
time, he probably would have stopped me from buying, saying the
transmission might be hanging by a thread. Somebody tells me it builds
character to take a bath at least once on a used car purchase.

By the way: does anyone know if the Coolant Temp Sensor is polarized, or
if there is only one way to put the wire snap assembly on the sensor? I
changed this, and along with the transmission problems, I seem to have an
unexplained loss of electrical power. Before I jump the thing, I want to
make sure I have no shorts or leaks. I can think of only two sources of
the problem: (1) I snapped in the CTS reversed---altered polarity? or
(2) I didn't tighten the negative cable proerly (I disconnected to change
the CTS).

Oh, and how do I suspect the auto transmission is having problems? The
shop said that the OBD codes gave the following reports: "1st gear
ratio" problem, "2nd gear ratio" problem (whatever all that means),
"transmission overheat", "cooling system overheat". He didn't run down
all the codes, and I don't have a scanner.

 

Common problem on Saturns. Needs a new valve body. Take it to a Saturn
dealer - they'll know about it. Do a search on "valve body" for this news
group.

Get the tranny looked at by someone who understands Saturns first, before
you write off the transmission. Please?

CTS is a thermister. They're not polarized. It matters not which direction
the electrons flow through it. The connector might be, but it really
doesn't matter.

When the CTS does go, often it dies because it leaked. If this is the case,
replace the connector also (because it will be corroded and will not make
good contact).

A few things to check:

1) Make sure that the battery cables are not corroded.
2) Make sure that you don't have too long of a bolt in the terminal. If you
do, and then you tighten it down, it bottoms out, cracks the connector, and
causes problem #1 above.

A few things to check:

1) The Saturn has a spin-on transmission filter, so it is really easy to
drain and replace the transmission fluid & filter. That would be a good idea
from the start.
2) The alternators on Saturns go. Often, the alternator light doesn't go on
when they do. The junk that they put on the power line totally confuses
computers. This might be what you have.

If the alternator is going, do yourself a favor, and replace both the
alternator and the battery.

 

Whoopie. Put that buizzbomb next to a Mustang and see how cool it
sounds. Or, more exactly, hear how cool a Mustang sounds when it's been
worked and the driver gets on it...

And having driven them, they suck Vs the American V motors I've driven.
Sorry, but Detroit still builds them better, IMHO. If I wanted a good
inline four, Japanese. Inline 6, German, V6 or V8, American.

 

....not that Ken can't speak for himself, I just wanted to toss in that from
my observation he's far from an idiot.

The original post said nothing of a particular car, it suggested not
considering a Saturn, any Saturn, period - then went on to not suggest any
particular Japanese car (nor define what his interpretation is of Japanese;
content?, assembly?, country where taxes are paid?). This manner of
dramatic spewing by the original poster can easily fall under Trollage -
which could be corrected if the originator cared to reply with specifics.

What's the old saying about the shortest distance between two points? ...a
straight line. Ken drew the line, that's all.

My 2 cents...

 

....Kirk said it best when suggesting a search for valve body in google
newsgroups - you could probably locate a used box (not that I'm suggesting
you need one) from http://www.6thplanetusedparts.com . The S-series
drivetrain seems pretty sturdy, with a few bugs for sure. Mechanical stuff
needs attention, nature of the beast.

 

Uh, I don't believe Honda was trying to make my car sound "cool". I believe
they were trying to keep it as quiet as possible at lower rpms, without
being too "buzzy" or thrashy at higher rpms. Considering it's only a 1.6L, I
think they did a damn good job with it.

If I drove a Mustang (GT or better), I wouldn't want it to be as quiet as
possible, silly.

No doubt, but how did we go from 4-bangers to Mustangs?

But ok, let's talk Mustangs. <shrug>

I have very high hopes for the new Mustang. My guess is that the big goofy
fake GT hood scoop is outta here, along with the flat seats and rubbery
shifter. Have you seen the new F-150 interior? Ford is really taking
interiors serious these days and my guess is that the new Mustang, which
will be getting an absolutely gorgeous retro-looking body, is going to get a
well worked-over interior.

The new Mustang is the only "affordable" car I have any interest in at all
right now. Can't wait to see one in person.

Well, I don't know because I haven't driven them all so I'll have to take
your word for it. My point was that you said, "I'd hate a Japanese car too.
I DESPISE the small buzzy inline 4!!!", though Japanese doesn't
automatically = 4-banger. At least, not like it did 2 decades ago.

BTW, Honda's 3.5L pulls my brother's Odyssey pretty good. I'm sure it's
going to pull the smaller Vue even better.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

 

....the 1.6 pre vtech sounds sweet wound to 7k and beyond (to me) - and I
still think the resonator-in-the-middle-and-the-muffler-at-the-end design
contributes to the buzziness, especially when a high flow muffler replaces
the oem unit. I'm guessing the design accommodate more interior space -
sort of like the change in the Civic's front end chassis that gave more
cabin space (or was it room in the engine bay?) and that everyone cried
about because it was less sophisticated...

Since I'm digressing anyway... I was watching something on TV about
elevators and how important to the Japanese that an elevator operates
smoothly and quietly versus their American counterparts who didn't care
about all that as long as it was fast (interestingly to me, Mitsubishi has
the fastest elevator - must of been a spin off from the Zero engineering
team of WWII... wink).

I haven't been in a Mustang in years - the next gen does look nice in print.
I think the Honda V6 in the VUE will be interesting too.

 

Wink wink!

The Japanese zero design was a stolen design from Hughes Aircraft Company.

In fact, it is the ONLY airplane that Hughes Aircraft Company designed that
ever went into full production.

(Hughes was, until Boeing bought us, the premier satellite company in the
world.)

 

Yup. ALL of Hughes was owned by GM.

The defense part got sold off to Raytheon (a bunch of dishonest bastards if
I ever saw some (in my opinion)) in 97.

The satellite part got sold off to Boeing in 2001(?). Boeing is a good
company to work for.

I worked for Hughes, got bought by Ratco, transferred back to Hughes Space &
Communications, and now work for Boeing.

Gotten GM discounts on 5 Saturns along the way...

 

at least i'm not here to sell people auto parts!

the salesman, the "true troll"

 

New, good quality rotors are cheap enough to not bother with the
resurfacing. The rotors are so thin to begin with that resurfacing
greatly increases the chance of subsequent warping.

Ken

 

....I think we've got something Hughes/Boeing down this way (maybe one of the
beach cities like Carlsbad - can't remember). Cool about the discounts too.

 

you can't expect too much from a General Motors product.
all they care about is the bottom line.

 

Yeah, I was with Hughes when they were owned by the Hughes Medical
Institute. They had huge tax benefits by being owned by HMI. Somebody
thought that was unfair and sued forcing the sale of Hughes Aircraft. GM
bought the whole thing lock, stock and barrel. I remember GM threw a big
party for the LA based Hughes sites by renting out Disneyland for several
days.

I bought a '93 Saturn for my mother using the GM discount. Hughes Aircraft
become Hughes Electronics and then GM ended up selling the defense part of
Hughes to Raytheon during the "rationalizataion" of the defense industry
after the end of the cold war. They retained the satellite business until
they finally sold it to Boeing. Today, it's nothing like it used to be.
Hughes used to be hailed as the "Cadillac" of the defense industry. It
developed and built cutting edge products way ahead of knowledge curve of
the time. It was great working for them back then.

Hughes (or Raytheon now) had a Carlsbad site, but I don't know the
disposition of that site now. I don't think it's operating any longer.

I've never heard of the Zero coming from a Hughes design. Hmm, interesting.

 

Never heard of the Zero coming from Hughes... from what I do remember hearing,
the company that made the Zero made all sorts of compromises during its
developement to meet the performance requirements of the Japanese Navy and the
bird was lacking in armour because of this. The Japanese did develope a whole
fleet of aircraft so they did have their own aircraft design development
industry thats for sure. The Zero was designed with light weight,
manuverability, firepower and a highly skilled aviator (they had very well
trained pilots in peace time before the war) to take advantage of those features
in mind. American aircraft of that timeframe were generally made big and tough
and gave up some of the performance to get this. Better to have the pilot
survive some hits, learn from that and then live to fight another day was the
idea of the time (a good one at that). Thats why the Japanese did so good in
the beginning of the war. They had highly experianced pilots flying aircraft
that could take advantage of their aircraft performance, however as they
experianced attrition and rookies took to the air, they didnt have good survival
rates due to this lack of protection (including no self sealing fuel tanks) and
then they had a hard time gaining experiance which would have made them a better
pilot... became a vicious circle spirling downwards! I did hear however that
the P-51 was intitially developed by a British manufacturer and the plans (with
some mods) were bought by the americans in the early stages of the war. The
Brits were quite happy with the Spitfire and Hurricane at the time and didnt
have the resources to manufacture another aircraft type. Sorry to digress abit
here but I have followed military history quite a bit and this peaked my
interest.

 

Can't you folks trim your posts? Jesus H. Christ on a unicycle!