water in the tranny fluid

i have a 95 sc2, and lately it had been shifting hard, and not wanting to
shift into 3rd. it would either stick, or try to force itself into 3rd and
"give up" (so i'd be going down the highway at 65mph while it sticks in 2nd
because it wouldnt go to 3rd), or it would do 1st, 2nd, and 4th (only when
the service engine light is on). most of the time if it decides to shift,
it would jerk or "pop" in 3rd anyway. im having problems with reverse too.
it hesitates to shift. then when it does finally shift after starting to
hit the gas, it kind of does a big "kachunk" dype of thing and throws you
around a bit. my brother looked at the fluid and it had a little bit of a
foam to it. he says thats due to water being in the fluid. could this be
the cause of the problems? how do i fix this problem, and what would be
causing it? thanks.

dave

 

It's good that you posted the year and model, but this is just not enough
information to help.

Automatic (I presume) or manual transmission? Mileage? Maintenance
history? When was the fluid last changed? Is the fluid possibly overfilled
(overfilling causes the fluid to whip up into a foam as you are
experiencing)? Any trouble codes (service engine light) shown? Better or
worse when hot or cold out? Does this shifting problem only happen after
vehicle has been running for a while or all the time repeatably?

Bob

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sorry about that. it is in fact an automatic, 133000 miles. as for
maintenance history, i havent a clue. i've only had the car for about a
month and a half. runs pretty good, and was kept pretty clean. but that
doesnt really matter too much. same thing with the fluid. i dont have a
clue when that was changed. when i get a spare moment and some spare cash,
i had planed on taking it to get flushed out, and have the filter changes.
as for overfilled, i dont believe it is. i think it is right on the full
line. the service engine light has come on a few times. when that happens,
it usually skips 3rd gear and goes right to either 4th, or back to 2nd.
and, i dont think it matters weather its hot, cold, or just right. it
shifts like crap in all climated, and all engine temps. and it doesnt
stop. it always shifts like crap. usually in 3rd. thats really about it.
if i restart the car, things go back to "normal" for a bit, then it
eventually screws up again. and every once in a great while, things will
run smoothly. needless to say, this mess has me all confused. any ideas?
thanks in advance.

dave

 

Drain the current fluid and change the spin on transmission filter . This
takes all of 5-10 minutes and requires almost no special tools. It is
actually easier than changing the oil since the filter is much easier to
access.

Replace the fluid with the correct type. Any brand should be fine as long
as it says Dexron III for GM vehicles. You usually can drain about 4
quarts. This is about half of the systems capacity. Replace the filter.
Make sure you get the old O-ring gasket off and the new one is lubricated
before you spin it on. make sure it is tight, but not overly tight or you
won't get it off later very easily. Fill fluid, but make sure not to
overfill.

Drive the vehicle and see if it has improved . You can then repeat the
process in about 250 or so miles. If you want to save the cost of the trans
filter the second time around, which is about $15 or so as I recall, then
just remove and dump old fluid from it and re-use. Replacing the fluid the
second time will get another 50% but half will be the new fluid, so this
process done twice will get about 75% of the original fluid out. It will be
cheaper than paying to power flush and takes little effort. At least then
you will know what is in the trans and this could alleviate your symptoms.

There is also a frequent problem with the valve body clogging on that
transmission, especially if the fluid and filter don't get serviced every
30K or so miles. There is a procedure that involves letting the car idle in
reverse with the parking brake applied for 30 minutes. I'd suggest you do
this between the first and second changes. The pressure builds in reverse
and helps to backflush the valve body. Try all this and then post your
results before any further recommendations can be made.

Good luck!

Bob

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Water could not get in trany unless some one put it there on purpose or
acidently, Check your conectors on computer and trany!

 

That was my thinking also... that is why I suggested he change the fluid.
As he has no maintenance history, there could be almost anything in there
from previous owners. I'd start with the fresh fluid to see how it
operates, then, if it still is having problems with 3rd gear, I'd suspect
the 3rd gear shift solenoid. I posted a procedure to check these using an
ohm meter a few months back and it is likely in the Google archives.

Bob

 

Hello bob shuman i found your post from mar 20 sounds like you know what
you were doing in the transmision, i have rebuilt a couple of the older GM
transmisions, keep up the good work !

George

 

hey
thanks for all the info. i think i'll try that tomorrow. just on a side
note. i started the car yesterday morning and while it was in park, it
vibrated really really bad and had a weird grinding sound. all went away
once i shifted into drive. i started it today, and all was fine until i
put it in reverse. it did the same thing. that may be in connection with
the fluid, so we'll see. i really hope the tranny isnt dying already, ive
only had the car for a month and a half. thanks again for all the help.
i'll post results after a bit.

dave

 

Thanks for the complement. I have never rebuilt any transmissions and can
say I've only had one transmission fail in my 30 years of driving. It was a
1990 Chrysler Minivan and this was the first year they used the "electronic"
transmission. I've learned to change the fluid and filter every 30K or so
and have never had any problems since. With the Saturn TAAT, this is
especially easy. As for replacing the bad solenoid, this too was not
particularly difficult as the top cover access design made doing the job
pretty straightforward. I posted the diagnostic procedure to try to help
others who may have similar transmission problems. The thing that
absolutely amazed me was that the local highly rated independent
transmission place didn't know how to do this and only used their computer
to read the diagnostic error codes (there were none in our case).

Thanks again . I hope the OP is able to get their transmission working
properly. The real issue here is not knowing the maintenance history. For
all we know, someone may have put brake fluid or antifreeze in the
transmission case.

Bob

 

i changed the fluid today. i dont think it has ever been changed. the
filter had rust bubbles on it, and the fluid was brown. it smelled like
really bad rusty water. so, i did all that, and i guess we'll see the
results. also, the thing i posted about the vibration. it appears that i
have a bad motor mount. i mean, its pretty well gone. could that be a
possible cause of the transmission problems? thanks again.

dave

 

Which motor mount? The top one (Torque Axis Mount?) These seem to go bad
with time. Most often it is from the rubber shrinking under load and
getting a large gap between the steel frame and the engine mount. This
leads to slamming when the transmission shifts between gears. It is very
easy to replace and the procedure has been covered here and in the Saturn
forum before so Google for more info. The key is to use a jack to support
the oil pan using some wood or a telephone book to distribute the weight
evenly on the pan surface. You need this to raise the engine back up to
bolt the mount in place.

As to this causing your 3rd gear problem, I doubt it since you indicated it
won't go into gear at all. On the transmission fluid, it is very important
that you change the filter as well but you did not mention if this was done.
As I indicated previously, after you have changed the fluid and filter, you
can try the valve body cleaning procedure in the Saturn Forum (search on
Wolfman's "Reverse Slam Cure"). This is basically adding your favorite
transmission additive, then putting the vehicle into reverse and letting it
idle for exactly 30 minutes with the parking brake set and while you are
inside the vehicle. (It probably would not hurt to block the wheels as
well, although this is strictly an added safety precaution.) After 30
minutes, stop the vehicle, and then drain the fluid again. In your case
since fluid looked so bad, I'd also remove the spin on filter and dump the
fluid from there too, then re-attach, tighten, and re-fill to full (do not
overfill) with Dexron III fluid again.

If this doesn't do the trick, you can try measuring resistance of the 5
transmission solenoids using the procedure I posted in March. All solenoids
should measure identical resistance somewhere between 4 and 8 ohms if I
recall correctly. If you get one that is way out of line (0 ohms or 2K ohms
for instance, then you found your problem. If they all measure the same,
then the solenoids are likely all good so it will be time to visit a good
transmission service place. Make sure you tell them you just changed the
fluid and what the old fluid looked and smelled like as this will be
important to help them diagnose your problem. Good luck and remember to
change that fluid and filter about 30K or so down the road!

Bob

 

@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>,
says...

The upper torsion mount is likely the one your talking about I'm
guessing. Those do need to be replaced every 100k miles it seems. If
your trans fluid is brown and smells that usually means its burnt and
past its life. If there is a few bubbles on the dip stick that isnt a
problem. If it is covered in foam then it is likely over filled. You
should be parked on level ground, with the engine running, and the
transmission should be warmed up before you check the level...unless
there is a cold mark on the dipstick.

If I were you I would take a good look at the spark plugs and wires.
People have a bad habit of ignoring those things and that could cause
your car to run rough if one wire was shot. The plugs should be 100k
plugs and theres a chance someone skipped the service on those.

 

yup. thats the motor mount. my dad had that problem with his saturn too. it
looks pretty easy to fix. as for all the rest of the things for the tranny,
thanks. i've almost run the 250 miles you said to do, so i'll probably
start doing the rest of that this weekend. i'll try too keep posted of
results. thanks again.

dave